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   JLJac on February 29, 2016, 10:39:59 AM:

Yeez, if you guys think our development is smooth sailing, let me comfort you by sharing that I had a pretty huge set back in one of the "set pieces" we're making - ie special extra cool rooms - and basically had to scrap 3 days of work  No No NO

Could salvage some of it though and I think that we're on a trajectory to an okay result! If anything, we've got persistence haha





   jamesprimate on March 01, 2016, 04:45:30 AM:

truer words have never been spoken. hopefully we'll have sone proper updates soon, pardon our silence as we crunch for a GDC build

I guess it's going to be whole map + music and sound?

yep! and quite a bit more than that too  Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Up Right





   jamesprimate on March 01, 2016, 05:53:17 AM:

thats the intention! the game has had so much media exposure for so long, which is awesome, but as a result there was real concern about it coming out and people just being like "yep, its still rain world, like we've seen in 345987 gifs". so we've been working super hard to subvert that and make sure the experience is fresh and surprising even for people who may have been following it closely.

does make for a boring devlog though im afraid :/





   jamesprimate on March 04, 2016, 11:36:15 PM:

I hope this isn't releasing in June. As much as I'd like it to release in June since that's my b-day month, it's the same month as No Man's Sky and Obduction and I wouldn't want Rain World to be overshadowed.

june 2036 though





   jamesprimate on March 07, 2016, 10:24:23 PM (Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 10:31:39 PM):

Ahh this is such an interesting topic to discuss! For the record I also think there's some terrible sfx / sound design stuff here and there in DkS (mostly in the form of loops that are too short, much like the texture / tile repeat issues), but the music and the way the music is implemented is fantastic. Lots of space and subtlety. And some very good uses of NO music as well!

 It'll probably take you a while to get there, but let me know when you get to Ash Lake. That left a huge impression on me. Moonlight butterfly and Gwyn too. Some of the best videogame music moments imho.





   jamesprimate on March 08, 2016, 09:14:46 AM:

thanks! at this point were probably coasting on past successes though  Cheesy

anyway, heres a recent clip i liked that illustrates the Scavenger's friend/foe system a little bit:

https://twitter.com/RainWorldGame/status/707027795449262080

this Scavenger has never encountered a Slugcat before, so is initially wary and moves to create distance. when slugcat approaches with a spear, the Scav draws its own spear anticipating a fight, but then as no action is taken by the player, it switches to a less lethal rock. when the vulture comes into view it changes things up a bit, as its considered a much more immediate threat, but you can still see the Scav targeting both the slugcat and the vulture with its spear as the moment to moment threat level changes. but then the slugcat spears the vulture behind the fleeing Scav and you can even see the moment of re-evaluation as the Scav decides "eh alright, youre cool" before they both escape underground as comrades.

a lot going on in 22 seconds!





   jamesprimate on March 11, 2016, 09:27:23 AM:

physically present at GDC! look at us here doing Professional Videogame Developmentā„¢:



"Hmmm yes, these smudged papers are fascinating."

A surprising amount of work can be done when people are actually in the same room, as opposed to literally the opposite sides of the planet! So far Joar has implemented a "wiggle system" to allow some possibility of escape from non-binary player death scenarios (when caught by sticky white lizard tongues, worm grass, etc etc); a "room attractiveness" tool that allows us to specify which rooms a creature might want to be in or avoid, allowing for us to fix problem areas, shape the player experience / difficulty curve a bit more, and setup "soft" creature set-pieces; we've finally put in region gate shelters, making the entire world map Totally Actually Playable, worked on placing the music, fixed SFX issues, solidified progression details, plus a million little improvements and bug-fixes of course. Stuff is really looking good  Hand Metal Right

Also we're prepping for Joars talk on Rain World's procedural animation for the GDC animation bootcamp. Nothing you loyal devlog peeps havent seen, but should be interesting to show it to an audience who may not be familiar with the game. The rest of the talks heavily skew AAA, so we will be the weirdos for sure. Nothing new there! So if you happen to be there, def come say HI and bail us out, haha.





   jamesprimate on March 15, 2016, 01:47:16 AM:

Hahahah Christian is so quick! Yes, that dual shock 4 definitely has some significance  Who, Me?  RW plays really well on it too, I was kind of surprised tbh! Sony asked us to use it for media events and I was kind of annoyed at the timing, but turns out It's just a much nicer controller than the usual clunky xbeast ones we've been using.

Talk went really well I think! It was an interesting vibe since pretty much all the other talks were super slick devs from like blizzard, ea, Ubisoft then.... us?? But we just did our thing and showed a ton of gifs. I mean, it's worked so far right? I'll post pics when I get back to my actual computer  Hand Thumbs Up Right





   jamesprimate on March 15, 2016, 11:07:20 AM:

still super bothered that the primary credit goes to adult swim when they're only the publisher or w/e and not the ones actually making the game :/

i actually don't even know what YOUR studio is called after all this time because of it???
That's how it is when a game is published. Same with Devolver, Team17, etc

James and Joar are Videocult. You see their logo at the start here:



Honestly it's mostly because we're kind of embarrassed to have a company and avoid putting "our logo" on anything whenever we can. We're *really* not trying to make some studio brand out of all of this, just Joar and James (and Lydia and Del) makin a game. People know rain world and they know us, and that's how we like it . Thanks for having our back tho!

And yes, due to public interest I hereby pledge to release the smudged Area 51 documents to anyone who completed the game!





   jamesprimate on March 17, 2016, 12:50:36 AM:

And so it begins
Quote
Rain World was voted Best Game of the MIX at their 5th Anniversary Showcase!
http://www.mediaindieexchange.com/best-of-the-mix-from-5th-anniversary-showcase/
https://twitter.com/adultswimgames/status/710183369825452032

YES! This is super awesome! We had no idea it was even a competition! Personally I was just happy to be hanging at the super cool IGN offices with all the cool indieMIX peeps eating their cake



but thinking back, there might have been some *subtle* hints....




Its really funny though, because right before the event Joar and I were in a mood talking about how the game was fussy to play and how this or that aspect wasnt coming together smoothly as we'd like, and how many more things needed to be tweaked, etc etc. As a dev its so easy to get lost in millions of those details, so this was a very nice slap in the face!





   JLJac on March 17, 2016, 11:22:53 AM:

Puuuuuh so intense! And now I'm finally home, James and Lydia are probably still on the plane. Talk went well (judging by the fact that people went up to us and said "hey, talk was good", I was of course completely zoned out and have no recollection) and Indiemix was an amazingly nice surprise! Really the confidence boost we needed! Also got to talk to many interesting people, got to see some really cool talks about what the big players are up to, and feeling generally inspired  Smiley And jetlagged  Tired So, back at it! Thanks GDC!





   JLJac on March 17, 2016, 11:35:13 AM:

As for the "what's going to happen after Rain World" question, that's basically like asking what we plan to do in our next reincarnation haha! Right now we're 110% focused on just getting this thing done, so I really don't know, but I'll take the fact that the subject is even up as a refreshing glimpse of light at the end of the tunnel ~





   jamesprimate on March 17, 2016, 10:06:09 PM (Last Edit: March 17, 2016, 10:20:38 PM):

warning: super boring GDC slideshow ahead! free to skip

heres some bits from the GDC talk. definitely crazy to be sandwiched between slick pro presentations from Blizzard, EA, Ubisoft, etc, and we bring in our funky hacked together lo-fi aesthetic



we actually met up with all those people the night before at the twitch hq in SF, adding to the illuminati vibe of the whole thing. they provided a ridiculous amount of food just by waving their hands. like... a football team could have eaten. some panem level stuff going on



the room for the talk was huge too. this was all i could get in the frame



and Joar admiring his handiwork on the big screen.



some true fans repping old rain world stickers



no pics of us actually doing the presentation though, because they wouldnt let any of our IRL friends in (seriously) :/


then the indieMIX event at the IGN offices, which was super wild





obligatory selfie with my husband mr. dark souls



hello



important meeting with the team about our next project



then getting down to some Real Work with the boss looking on...



but now were back in various basements and properly returning to the grind! i think this trip was really good for us though, gave us some much needed perspective and the path to the end seems clear now for whatever reason. Smiley





   jamesprimate on March 19, 2016, 07:06:52 PM:

i feel like im doing that right now to be honest! ive pretty much slept the past two days since getting back  Yawn


So as you might expect, quite a few new mechanics have been added recently as we are polishing up the gameplay experience, but Joar just put in something we call the Karma Gate system and its a total revelation imo. Some aspects are still being worked out, and im sure he'll want to talk about it further when hes free, but basically its a system that requires the player to survive a certain amount of cycles in a row in order to progress through region gates.

This was implemented initially to prevent the tendency of players to throw themselves through the terrain as fast as possible trying to find the next region/shelter/etc, or to just quit when a rain cycle comes in. It slows the pace a bit and rewards a more cautious approach, which is cool. But more importantly imo is that it really brings out the "scarcity" aspect built into the bats/food sources. As you devour bat nests and fruit, they deplete, forcing you to search further and further in the region, and with the map tool you now strategize routes that will allow you to find food and also reach the region gate before the rain hits.

Plus it forces you to become really personal with the local creatures as you are stuck with them for a period of time, and that highlights the procedural creature generation so you get to really experience their individual personalities and how their opinion of you develops. From my perspective this Karma Gate mechanic totally tied all the aspects of the game together, so im *super enthused*.  Hand Shake Left Hand Shake Right





   jamesprimate on March 19, 2016, 09:31:05 PM:

The way its working is that each cycle survived increases your "karma level" (currently capped at 5), and each time you die reduces it. Each gate has a certain karma level that required to pass through from 1-5, and certain directions require more than others. The idea being that if you are an experienced player that is able to quickly hunt and stay alive through a bunch of consecutive cycles, all the gates will be passable to you and you can adopt a more aggressive pace. But if you die, it forces you to slow down, regroup and be cautious, hopefully improving your skills.

Ive been playing a LOT more since this went in, and i cant even tell you how much more fun it is, even for me who is far too intimately knowledgeable about the region layouts. All these little creature neighborhoods open up to you that previously you'd just see once passing through. In my current save, im in Heavy Industry right next to a water tank filled with snails that has 2 blue lizard living nearby. Initially the lizards would just snoop around and I'd quickly swim through to escape, but over a few cycles they seem to have learned my tricks and position themselves better, so now its a mad dash to dive and grab snails to detonate and knock them out.

But in my year+ of making and playing this region, none of that had ever happened before! You'd rush through once and that would be that. Spending more time with the fauna allows for all these emergent experiences as the procedurally generated personalities of the individual creatures interplay and your interactions with them shape their behaviour in subsequent cycles.  Im kind of blown away right now to be honest.  Hand Any Key





   JLJac on March 20, 2016, 04:29:54 AM (Last Edit: March 20, 2016, 04:38:29 AM):

Sorry about being quiet, I have one more big SECRET thing to do and I wanted to clump together the devlog silence rather than start devlogging just to stop again a bit later. The karma system is really prominent though, so let's talk about it a little bit!

The karma system is the solution to a problem we noticed when connecting the entire world. It shows that what was driving player motivation wasn't survival, but exploration - the treat you're looking for is seeing new environments and new creatures (which is natural as humans are curious). This is all good, but it incentivised a pretty destructive play style. Instead of trying to survive, you would throw yourself out into the world as far and quick as you could over and over, not caring if you survived as long as you had the chance to reach new areas. The key problem here was the not caring if you survived part - that is very contrary to the mood we wanted to create, which should be all about survival. We're making a survival platformer after all, and want to create the feeling of being an animal in an eco system - which should be all about staying alive. Also as James said, players could move very quickly through the world just blazing through the carefully crafted environments and situations. Basically, a way too high movement to survival ratio.

Another problem was that any cycle that you didn't manage to reach a new shelter felt like a complete waste. I actually had one person on a convention floor, that had after much effort managed to make it back to the starting shelter with enough food, ask me "what did I gain from that?"

We needed to skew the main incentive away from movement and towards survival, making survival the main objective and movement the secondary. The solution we came up with was gating movement with survival - if you don't survive, you don't get to see new areas. A nice side effect of this is an automatic smoothing of the difficulty curve - you're only let into the next region when you're able to handle the one you're in, making sure that you don't randomly end up on too deep waters without any way of making it back.

So yeah, each cycle you survive, +1 karma, each cycle you die, -1 karma. Clamped at 1 and 5. Exiting the game or hitting restart counts as a death and takes karma away, keeping you from cheating the system by restarting when in a dire situation - you have to actually play and survive in order to avoid karma depletion.

Region gates have karma requirements - and different requirements in each direction. This means that we can make it so that movement from an easy region to a difficult one has a higher requirement, whereas the other direction has a low or no requirement. That way we can make sure that the player doesn't enter a region they're not ready for, but if they do manage to enter one and find out that they bit off more than they can chew there's the option to opt out back into the easier region they came from and regroup.

The karma system is relative rather than static. By this I mean that collecting 2 karma in an easy region is easy, whereas collecting 2 karma in a tough region is hard. So while the range 1-5 might seem narrow (we might actually extend it depending on how testing/tuning goes) it is actually way wider than it seems, because a 4 in a hard region might represent the difficulty of a 12 or something in the first region.

It also helps build anticipation - instead of finding a gate and immediately going through it, you might find it and think "cool, I wonder what's behind there" and then have to spend a few cycles actually getting there.

One thing we said early on is that we don't want to gate progression like a classical metroidvania, which is effectually more linear than it might look from viewing the map as you have to do tasks in certain orders (get red key to go through red doors, etc). This design principle still basically stands with the karma system. If you're a very good player, you can theoretically farm your karma up to max at the beginning and then move freely through the entire world unless you die. In practice and if you're a beginner you'll die quite a bit though, slowing your progression down and funneling you a bit towards regions that are more on your level.

Addressing Teod's concerns. Yes, we're tuning the regions to be able to infinitely sustain the player on food (although it will get harder as food depletes), or to have a gate without karma requirement that allows you to get out of them. We don't want the player to be able to null their save file by moving into a region that can't support them without a way of getting out.

Yep, the karma system breaks the linear timeline of saving and reverting a bit. Normally in a game when reverting to the last save, the entire game world pretends like everything from that point in time "didn't happen", and at the end of the game you could imagine a timeline stitched together from all the successful sessions that shows the player moving through the entire thing without dying once. With the karma system however, if you die everything is reverted to your last save state except the karma, which is depleted. The karma counter sort of exists on its own timeline. As for story reasons for this, we do have some ideas but don't want to go into it at depth because it would spoil some very key narrative points. All I'll say for now is that the game narrative touches on the themes of re-birth and cyclical life, and this has to do with that.

Having the gates be tied to total cycles doesn't really create the same result. One reason is that it doesn't dynamically adapt to the player performance in the same way - everyone would be let into the same areas at the same time, regardless of how well they're doing. Some players might find themselves in too deep waters, others might get impatient with the game not letting them into areas which they would actually be able to handle, breaking the design principle of "the whole world open from the start, if you're good enough".

This stuff also plays into the planned New Game+ mechanics - the second time you play the game, you'll likely be muuuch better at it, and want to move much quicker. A system dynamically adapting to the player's skill will adapt to your pace and allow you to move where you want to without frustration from arbitrary obstacles.





   JLJac on March 20, 2016, 05:00:46 AM:

And as we're talking, another significant mechanic has been implemented - the creature attraction tool. It allows James to tell certain breeds of creatures to be attracted to or avoid certain rooms. This allows him to create little turfs for the creatures that they will generally keep to. Of course we both think that the emergent aspect of rain world is one of the coolest things about it, and we'd in no way want the creatures to be stuck in their spots waiting for the player to arrive like standard video game enemies. This is more about manipulating probabilities - how probable should it be that these creatures are in these general areas?

Basically it allows to create little mini-biomes within the regions. Garbage wastes for example consists of a large surface area sub region, and then an almost as large system of underground caves. With this system we can create distinct faunas for sub regions like this, while still allowing bleed and overlap and interaction between the two. Just that cave creatures won't be just as likely to be up on the surface and vice versa.

Another important aspect of this system is that earlier when creatures roamed the world, they'd have an equal chance to pick any room as a roaming destination, independent of the room size. Having 7 lizards in a 6-screen room is good gameplay, but having 7 lizards in a tiny little one-screen connecting corridor was horrible Cheesy With this system, the chance to pick a room as a hang out spot is dependent on room size as well, making that latter scenario much less likely.

It should be noted that the system mostly is manipulating where the creatures choose to stay, they're still generally allowed to move through any room - making them able to traverse the regions about as much as they previously were (ie a lizard might decide to go hunt 7 rooms away from its spawn position, traversing a third of a region to get there). We do have a "forbid" setting as well that prevents creatures from even passing through a room, but we're treating that as a "nuclear option" and are very restrictive with its use - mostly using it for keeping Daddy Long Legs from hogging tiny little connecting corridors and blocking player advancement completely.

In general James has been keeping a very light touch with this tool, keeping things as open and accessible as possible and only going in with slight room attractiveness alterations where it's really necessary. The changes to how the game plays have been big and for the better though - creatures feel like they have more personality if you can expect them to hang out in certain environments (salamanders like water, for example), and unfair deaths from weird random creature mixtures in tiny rooms has gone down quite a lot.





   jamesprimate on March 20, 2016, 03:20:30 PM:

Sounds amazing! Have you figured out how you will be communicating the karma system in the UI?

Joar has a pretty cool functional UI setup now, but I think it's going to be stylized / designed up a bit before we show it. Another controversial bit (that historically I have been really against) is that it also incorporates a really slick stylized rain cycle timer. All of it is integrated into the "Slugcat thinking" map screen, so despite all my protesting before, it works really well and is much needed for overall gameplay now that the rain cycle length has randomized elements.





   JLJac on March 21, 2016, 12:56:43 AM:

Hi there!

Yep, you got it. If a limb ends up too far behind the body, it extends forward looking for a new point to reach for. It's kind of a shame because this is exactly what I focused the GDC talk on, but as the videos require a $1k pass to view and I signed a paper not to spread anything, I think it'd hardly be popular if I brought it out in the open :/ I'll give you a short version right here though!



So here you see a creature (Daddy Long Legs) moving through an environment. The yellow dots hovering are "ideal grab positions" - if all positions in the room were valid grab positions this is where the tentacles would prefer to grab on. As you said, they are in front of the creature with respect to the body's general movement direction - if you're climbing you want to get your limbs in front of you, in order to pull yourself forward.

However, not every position in the room is a valid grab position, because it shouldn't be able to grab on to thin air. That's what I use this three-tier system for:



Yellow dot is still the ideal grab position. Green dot is the "temporary grab position". What happens here is that I have a method that can assign a score for each position in the room, evaluating how good of a grab position it is. If the position is thin air, the score is negative infinity or something - you never want to grab on to here. If the position is on the surface of terrain though, the score is higher the closer it is to the yellow dot.

So, each frame the leg locomotion algorithm picks a random position in the room. If the random position has a higher score than the current temp position (green) the temp position is moved to the random position. This means that the outcome in a specific frame can only be a) not moving or b) moving to a better position - making sure that over the course of several frames, the green dot will gravitate towards the best possible valid position.

And finally we have the blue dot, which is the "current grab position" - where the limb is actually headed.

So the cycle goes like this: Blue dot (current grab position) is placed on top of green dot (temp grab position) and the tentacle moves there, as the body moves along towards its goal. When the tentacle ends up too far behind the body, the tentacle releases and the blue dot is once again put on top of the green dot, which has now progressed further along. Repeat! This creates a cycle of grab, pull forward, release, grab, pull forward, release.





   JLJac on March 21, 2016, 01:03:03 AM:

@zorg, when you're in a shelter with enough food, there's two options - "continue" which will put you back in the game and "exit" which will take you to the menu. If you chose "continue" you're considered to have bet a karma point on your survival, and have to complete the cycle else you'll lose one point. If you pick "exit" however, you're opting out of the bet and get to keep your karma level where it's at when you start the game next time.

It is a little bit harsh - once you have committed to playing there are only two outcomes - win or lose (the latter including exiting or restarting) but cycles are generally pretty short (MAX 7 minutes or so, generally shorter) so in comparison to the ~40 min commitment of firing up a game of Binding of Isaac or similar roguelites it's not too bad!