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   jamesprimate on January 17, 2015, 06:39:17 PM:

prepare yourselves....








   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 12:18:44 AM:

Update 381



I've spent 3 days now trying to make this tentacle work. I just can't seem to make it work properly... And it's extremely cognitively exhausting all the time. I really thought I was on the final stretch this morning, but that's 6 hours ago and I'm still not happy with what I have.

If anybody has some tutorial, or some tips, or some anything, please please let me know!

This is what I'm attempting to accomplish: Basically super rudimentary rope physics. If the rope sweeps over an island of terrain, it shouldn't be allowed to pass through. The segments of the rope should not be allowed to exist on different sides of a wall - basically the entire rope should be connected in non-solid tiles from start to end.

What I have is almost good enough. In some situations it actually looks okay. In some situations when the tentacle moves around an obstacle it moves so quickly that it looks as if it's sweeping right through, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Functionally it's pretty solid, it's finding paths and have a fixed reach etc. But cosmetically I find it unappealing, the movement is super jerky. Any tips or links welcome.





   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 12:57:22 AM:



Okay I got a little bit of my happiness back. This is gonna turn out pretty scary either way, I believe!
(programming tips still welcome tho)





   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 04:18:40 AM:

@Schrompf yeah I'm doing soft connections, makes things a little less twitchy than if you go with stiff connections in a case like this. I don't exactly get what you're saying about pulling in limbs? I do get that it would be pretty simple to have a tentacle that just contracts and then extends along a new path. It could just make itself longer along the path, and when a new path is found it could easily use its own body as a path home, and then get started on the next path. Problem is that if the base of the tentacle is moving, such as in this case, it'd be always contracted. So I need something that rather tries to align with a path in real time.

@zorg, I pretty much need to animate it all, because the tip and the base of the tentacle are moving simultaneously. But that's not the problem really - the problem is terrain, or more specifically corners. When the rope is pushed against a corner the segments go separate ways, and end up on different sides of some terrain feature, which causes the rope to get stuck.

Update 382

I think I actually solved it to a degree that's far from perfect, but which I'm decently happy with. As marcgfx mentioned, we're hoping for the skinning of the character to make it look better still.



Sometimes the solution was super obvious and sitting there all along. Not so this time. Every part of functionality in this thing was hard won through hours of blood, sweat and tears.



My head is all dizzy from all the actual freaking thinking I've had to do to get to this somewhat okay-ish result.

Contrary to being obvious my solution is even hard to explain. Hmm.

Okay, so you see that there's a semi-transparent "ghost" tentacle? That's the tile space tentacle. It has pros and cons. Pros - it can never be inside terrain, and the segments are always neighbors, meaning the whole thing is connected from root to tip, in non-solid tiles. Cons - it's square looking and lack physics features such as gravity. But most notably, when the path changes, it tends to curl up and get really small before extending along the path again.

Then there's the float space tentacle, which are the round segments. The idea is basically that the float space tentacle should do it's thing, looking cool and physicsy, but also draw from the strengths of the tile space tentacle (which is, as we remember, not getting stuck in terrain all the goddamn time).

Each float space segment has a buddy in the tile space tentacle, as indicated by the little purple lines. If the float space buddy can see its tile space buddy, it's pretty much free to float around.

If not, the float space buddy has been keeping track of every position of its tiles space buddy, like, 60 ticks back. So then it starts to go backwards in that list and raytracing to check if it can see those last positions. The first one it can see, it moves towards.

This means that the float space tentacle generally does its thing, except when it can't see its tile space counterpart. In that case it starts to follow like, the ghost of its tile space counterpart, until it catches up. That's why you can see the float space tentacle kind of mimic the movement of the tile space tentacle, but a little bit delayed, as an obstacle is avoided.

Pew.





   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 04:20:46 AM:

Also, please note the expression of the slugcat in the gif. Constantly when developing the kraken I've been getting that passive aggression. Can someone explain that a game needs some challenging enemies?





   jamesprimate on January 19, 2015, 06:07:47 AM:

this definitely is the face of "fffffff im going to get eaten"





   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 05:21:18 PM:

The gifs shows a long tentacle because the more tentacle I have, the clearer I can see what's going right/wrong. The actual kraken will have substantially shorter tentacles/wings.

Quote
The delayed tile space tentacle looks great, even with the curls it looks very alive. The movements of the float space tentacle look way more chaotic, because the segments clump together (because they are moving in the same direction simultaniously, but the tip moves faster).

I agree with zorg. The "ghost" tentacle, with its curls and swoops, almost seems more natural in its movements than the "real" tentacle following that pathing. I wonder if increasing the tension and decreasing the elasticity of the connections between the pathing ghost and the tentacle nodes would resolve the clumping issue. Right now it definitely looks like it is being pulled, rather than muscular movement.

Also AAAAAAAAAAH that thing is way longer than I anticipated! I really hope that there will be extensive, maze-like warrens of tunnels to hide in when that thing is around...
I also agree, the ghost tentacle looks better. The reason it looks like its being suddenly yanked around is because instead of the acceleration being parabolic, its negative exponential, if that makes sense.

Right now it is: |            |         |    |  | |||

It should be:    || |  |    |       |       |    |  | | ||

If that makes any sense at all WTF
Yes! Noted! I just imagined that step one would be not having it move through terrain, then step two would be making it look pretty. In my more recent implementations I've taken away some of the homing force from the tip, and distributed it more evenly along the segments, and it looks a bit better I think.

The tentacle still looks a bit weird because a) the kraken always knows where slugcat is, even when in a tunnel and out of sight and b) because it moves its tentacles as if it had infinite strenght. I could imagine, if it would only have strong lower tentacles and slower upper tentacles it would first slam the whole tantacle in the general direction of the slugcat and than the tip of the tentacle would slowly "crawl" the rest of the way.=D
The tentacle has no idea where the slugcat is or even that it exists, I'm providing path goals with the mouse??

Wow, that looks really great. Like, seriously, haha.

I think the only thing you might want to do is reverse how the tentacle is moving toward the goal position - instead of attempting to move the tip to the desired position, it seems like it'd be easier to move the root of the tentacle to the desired root point of the path, and then move on to the next node in the tentacle. Repeat until all nodes of the tentacle are close enough to the goal. That way, you won't have so much weird "ghosting through objects" and doubling back on the tip, since it's going from the root forward.

But I dunno, that might be what you've tried already, or maybe it won't work well.

Great work, anyway!

This is pretty much the movement pattern of the "ghost tentacle". Problem is that if you move the tentacle base, you have to start the process over again. I need to account for simultaneously moving base and tip here  Who, Me?





   JLJac on January 19, 2015, 08:16:33 PM:

Update 383

Started on climbing behavior.



As you might remember, this creature is supposed to be flying/climbing. Generally it will prefer flying in open areas and climbing in narrow areas, but I don't know yet to what degree it should prefer either way of locomotion. Maybe it'll only climb if absolutely necessary, but prefer flying in all possible scenarios.

This climbing behavior obviously needs some work. But the idea is that the flying behavior will be able to support it a bit and make it look a little more competent - maybe the creature should be able to fly a little bit with one limb while climbing with the other, for example.





   JLJac on January 20, 2015, 02:31:55 AM:

Gimmy! Welcome back! Missed ya!

Update 384

Making slow but steady progress on the kraken.



Right now I'm working on the transitions between flying and climbing states.



It actually has the ability to fly with one tentacle and climb with the other right now, though I'm not sure if I love it. If it's to do that, I'd want it to be just to give itself a little boost now and then during a difficult bit while climbing, not the tentacle locking into fly mode for a long time. I'll see what I can do about it.

The idea is that it should be faster while flying, but have better control while climbing. Not quite the case yet... More work needed. Stay tuned!





   jamesprimate on January 20, 2015, 08:46:36 AM (Last Edit: January 20, 2015, 08:52:48 AM):

 Evil SUPER pumped on the kraken  Evil

while Joar is prettying up the tentacle monster, im trying to build it a nice home! the first aerial region we're doing is called Chimney Canopy. it is a mess of spires, huge chimneys and scaffolding high above the heavy industry region.

Joar provided some huge chimney chunks and a pretty elaborate scaffolding set a few days ago, so i've been getting a feel for those:


detail: https://i.imgur.com/gYAz2Nf.png


detail: https://i.imgur.com/IJmy2YU.png

as we get further away from ground level, the tangled steeplechase vibe will fade into much more exposed, sparse platforming where krakens will likely terrorize you from all angles:


detail: https://i.imgur.com/WPtSvtJ.png



the formative idea for this region is all based off of my favorite level from the old lingo build, called The Grid:


as you can probably see, the look of the game has evolved quite a bit, so its been an interesting challenge trying to develop levels highlighting that same structure and gameplay style, while still keeping the snazzy sense of depth and scale that we've been able to achieve in the new version.





   JLJac on January 20, 2015, 07:34:39 PM:

Hahahahaha you guys are getting all scientific in here! It's just a cartoon  Wink Or worse, a game of a cartoon  Cheesy

Update 385

Thrusters help the kraken manouver in some of the more tricky situations, particularly take off and landing. It can also give a quick burst while flying or even climbing to nudge itself in the right direction.



Takeoff and landing are special animations, but the little nudges can happen at any time - it just does a dot product comparison of the body's direction, the desired travel direction, and each jet direction. If they line up - the body is moving away from where it should go, but the jet points in the right direction to adjust that, the jet gives a little burst.

Don't worry though, all takeoffs and landings aren't super graceful now, the super awkward transition to flying where the Kraken gets one wing started and then the other will still be around.








   JLJac on January 21, 2015, 06:27:34 AM:


If the tentacle is reaching into tunnels and comes to a split in a tunnel, how does it decide which way to kraken into? Since the kraken cannot see which way the slugcat took.

Same way a lizard decides which branch to take when hunting - by following a simulated best guess "ghost" of the target.
Winner  Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Up Right Hand Thumbs Up Right





   jamesprimate on January 21, 2015, 02:22:12 PM:

Dang now we HAVE to make this game good, cuz Fumito Ueda is going to be playing it O_O http://www.polygon.com/a/life-in-japan/Fumito-Ueda-views





   JLJac on January 22, 2015, 05:24:07 AM:

I'm really really honored by that. I love the atmosphere of his stuff!

Update 385

Started skinning this beast!



Still a long way to go, but we're getting there Smiley



Tentacle contour changing when switching between climbing and flying modes.





   jamesprimate on January 22, 2015, 07:43:57 AM:

That's the neck! You and your dirty minds...

Movement looks nice and smooth and creepy. Right now it's like you're being chased around by a giant disembodied stomach and lower intestine rofl





   JLJac on January 22, 2015, 08:03:47 PM:

Update 386

Are you ready for gross sky kraken appendages? That rhetorical question, of course you wanna see some gross appendages:



Please refrain from these words in the below discussion: "Udder", "Sperm Sack".

Also - iiiiiiincoooooomiiiiiing!






   JLJac on January 22, 2015, 09:24:17 PM:

So which limbs does it use to grab prey and search through vents? The big wing arms seem too large to fit into tunnels and tight places. Do the purple tentacles stretch?

Did Joar ever actually say it would reach into vents?

Actually I don't think I mentioned vent searching for this creature, but more for tentacles in general. The purple tentacles are passive, so it'd have to be the wings if any. It does reach with its neck though, but it's not very long. When James and I really start to try to build gameplay around it we'll see, maybe it'll need grabby arms or it's too easy.

Also is there going to be some kind of membrane or skin between the "fingers" of the wings?
Nope, I don't think so, but the "fingers" will look slightly different - now they're just squares.

Edit: that slick move the slugcat pulls off in the first GIF is awesome. Swing off the pole, land on the edge of the platform, leap downward, all in one smooth fluid motion
Tooooootally on purpose!  Wink





   jamesprimate on January 23, 2015, 02:09:15 AM:

WHAT A GLORIOUS BEAST  My Word!






   jamesprimate on January 23, 2015, 05:55:47 AM:

Just looked on humble at the claim page? And there doesn't seem to be any link, it just shows:

Your purchase of Rain World Early Access + Soundtrack gets you:

Rain World, Cross-Platform and DRM-Free
Rain World Digital Soundtrack (+ Bonus Tracks)
Rain World Alpha/Beta Access

Then no download link for the Alpha? Any ideas?
Thanks

PM'd!





   jamesprimate on January 23, 2015, 02:24:36 PM:

I was a little scared to read after all of those uhhh... suggestive... kraken comments earlier in the thread, but that was a fun read  Toast Right