—    —  Home

   jamesprimate on December 11, 2014, 09:54:54 PM (Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 10:04:53 PM):

Yep! thats the idea: each region is a little open-world metroidvania, usually with a few thematically linked sub-regions, and then the layout of the world is laid out in a similar fashion: world -> region -> sub-region -> room; mazes within mazes! there are 36 rooms for the first region, "suburban", and thats probably a bit more than they will be on average. This drainage area im working on now looks like it will probably be in the 20-something range, and a few might be even simpler than that. We'll see!

as for release date: only timelords know, but it certainly better be in 2015





   jamesprimate on December 11, 2014, 10:51:06 PM (Last Edit: December 11, 2014, 11:17:36 PM):

Yep! thats the idea: each region is a little open-world metroidvania, usually with a few thematically linked sub-regions, and then the layout of the world is laid out in a similar fashion: world -> region -> sub-region -> room; mazes within mazes! there are 36 rooms for the first region, "suburban", and thats probably a bit more than they will be on average. This drainage area im working on now looks like it will probably be in the 20-something range, and a few might be even simpler than that. We'll see!

as for release date: only timelords know, but it certainly better be in 2015
Awesome. That approach just sounds so good

Does one screen equal one room? Or can a "room" be larger, multi-screen areas?

a room can be (and often is) multiple screens, yes!

currently were hitting an integer limit at around 4 screens per "room" and only with certain dimensions, so down the line a bit Joar is going to be doing the tedious job of reworking the level editor to accommodate sizes beyond that (among other things), which he is understandably not looking forward to at all. the really large rooms only come into play later in the game, so we should be totally fine working within the current limitations for the next few regions at least.





   jamesprimate on December 13, 2014, 12:29:41 AM:

Hahah yes now imagine BUILDING it all  Epileptic

Regions should be fairly easy to tell, as not only are they built out of different materials/tiles (so they have their own look) and explore different gameplay aspects ("horizontal", "vertical", various flavors of "water region", "underground", "mazes", etc etc) but they will also have their own color distinct color palette! Joar just sent me this one for the Drainage System region, and man it is GORGEOUS:


Larger: https://i.imgur.com/P6FtdD2.png

Rusted pipes, weird greenish murky water, it sets the dank underground mood perfectly and adds so much to the atmosphere. Sometimes with all the programming and development nonsense, I forget he is originally a damn talented visual artist Tongue Im sure he'll talk about that palette a bit more when he's back in action (Feel better Joar!!)





   jamesprimate on December 13, 2014, 09:07:43 AM:

that is a really good question. the fluidity of the animation is tied to everything being per-pixel and attention being paid to that level of details, so scaling is pretty much out. plus, the unique way the rooms are created (30 layers of topography stacked, each with its own lines of perspective, which gives that kind of diorama-esque false 3d look) means that we cant just re-size the camera either, like you might do in a unity or game-maker type engine. so the solution we (eh, Joar) came up with is that basically were designing everything around a few key 16:9 and 4:3 resolutions simultaneously as to accommodate things like the PS Vita. Thats a bit tricky since it would necessarily include constantly taking that aspect into consideration for super basic things like object positioning within level geometries and even the screen switching mechanism, but seems to be working so far!

As for the soundtrack, I cant wait to start talking about that  Well, hello there!, but we need the game content to catch up first! Seems like we are getting there though. Im putting together what might be the last few rooms for the second region this weekend. Then only 10 more regions to go!  Droop





   jamesprimate on December 14, 2014, 08:53:54 AM (Last Edit: December 14, 2014, 09:00:30 AM):

We know two regions already: "Suburban" and "Drainage System". So there'll be 12 regions in the game?

thats the plan at present! in my mind, 12 regions allow exploration of all the permutations of mechanics (wont be too specific, because id like to surprise you with some of them!) but its a long way to go, so who knows if things might change Wink Right now my idea is to get the first few regions together (maybe the first 4) and see how it all feels connected, how much time it takes to get from place to place, etc., then take stock and use that info to tighten up the ideas for scope of the greater world. Then after I get the world all stapled together, of course Joar is going to do another pass to add some REAL ART CRED, hopefully some dynamic set pieces, etc etc.

There is still one potentially significant element, darkness, that we haven't even begun experimenting with how it will be implemented. So if/how that plays out will significantly effect the number of regions and the shape of the game world. BUT... honestly at this point its just "a thing ive been nagging Joar about", so who knows if it will actually pan out.

Please tell me we can get a playable build by Christmas  Beg
It would be the perfect present to the world

Wink





   jamesprimate on December 15, 2014, 08:19:43 AM:

i know you guys are gif starved...



html5: http://gfycat.com/DeadlyBaggyBluefintuna

showing off the new palette in action. check the ambient water lighting, new pipes, leeches, DS_A05 has it all. Kind of gives off a nice "terrarium" feel. Also on the right with the water coming out is a tile ive been begging Joar for: the spigot!!!!! behold its glory.






   jamesprimate on December 17, 2014, 03:03:10 AM:

Yeah how about releasing a terrarium screen saver before the end of the game Shocked
Free asset on unity to do that painlessly:
 https://www.assetstore.unity3d.com/en/#!/content/770
Who, Me?


I LOVE THIS IDEA!! Great suggestion!

I wonder if the leeches should have a lurking state, where they are more hidden, so you never know if the water is safe or not.

This is a good point. Are leeches always going to be hovering right around the surface of the water closest to the player? It doesn't seem like the player would even have a chance to venture far into water without immediately being weighed down by leeches. Maybe there could be a few more sluggish ones around the surface, & when they get their first bite the rest of the swarm is made alert to the player's presence in the water. All of the sudden a mass of writhing silhouettes appears from the pool floor ascending towards the player's location. Currently I wouldn't even think of water exploration knowing a mass of leeches is already prepared to sink me.

ah yes fear not! we've only been showing clips of the leeches once they are aware of your presence, as otherwise they are below the surface doing their thing and hard to make look good for the camera. unless they know where you are they just happily swim along and maybe hunt a bat or two.

also its not like the leeches are insta-kill! they are dangerous, but if you learn their behavior you can quickly, carefully swim through them (at some risk of course.) They wont be in every body of water either, just placed as hazard elements for rooms or if for some reason we want to limit a players time spent in a certain body of water. take this room for example:



the leeches only have access to the center tank, so in addition to navigating a series of underwater tubes without drowning, AND wall jumping challenges while racing the rain clock, you also have to deal with the possibility of falling into a vat of leeches which would slow you down further.

We're trying to avoid things like "dont fall into the spikes" and instead go with hazards that, while dangerous, you still can wriggle or fight your way out of.





   JLJac on December 18, 2014, 06:24:30 PM:

Hi everyone! I'm up and at it again!

@cwearly1, woooooooow  Shocked Thanks so much for the awesome work! That wiki is looking ace! I hope we'll be able to provide you with some more content to fill it with soon, hehe!

@tortoiseandcrow, yes, I agree very much on this. In the version from which the screenshot is taken, 3 layers of depth were allowed to render in front of the water, since then I've changed it to only 1, getting rid of most of the plants that show up in front of stuff. Other than that it's just about messing with the level renderer until the RNG decides to not place any plants in the first layer. When it comes to the brown color, that's because there's some light down there ~ we've talked about this and when we pass over the rooms again we'll make sure to get rid of that, but there's a lot of rooms so stuff end up lagging behind. But yeah, the idea is that it should be very dark down there, to further create the impression of a cross section rather than water being held in by a magic wall.

This is a very awkward situation graphically, as it's a prime example of 2D/3D colliding and not making sense together. But as I think James have mentioned this "water contained behind terrain" thing is going to be pretty much exclusive to this area, so we basically only have these 20 something rooms to handle making me think that we can try to mess around with the level renderer to solve the individual cases rather than try to come up with some huge universal solution.





   JLJac on December 19, 2014, 01:25:39 AM:

Update 374
Mostly maintenance work today ~ worked around some weirdness between shaders and futile unloading textures, and added the ability to place leeches in the world text file, enabling James to get to leech placement.

Other than that, some deep diving in the lizard AI. Sometimes I do some sort of aimless problem solving, where I just put the game in some situation and see what problems I can spot. When I spot them, I try to hunt them down and fix them, and in that process I generally spot around 6 200 881 more, so it's generally a process that can just go on for however long I allow it to.

This session I messed around with lizards looking for dens. For some reason they all started searching for dens immediately on spawn, even though they were literally crawling out of one, and I didn't like that as the den search is an expensive path finding operation. On top of that they also searched for a new den every time they entered a new room, which seemed pretty unnecessary. So I restricted that some, and noticed that the den finder wouldn't find a den that had the same coordinate as the creature searching, so I fixed that. And then I noticed that this new special case fed the critter a den position that had some nonsense tile position info as well, making it impossible to get to the den, so then I fixed that. You get the idea. This sort of stuff is not the most exciting, but by just combing over the game like this again and again I'm able to untangle it, make it run smoother and generally work.

In slightly more fun news, I added some water light flicker under water as well - thought it was missing below the surface:






   jamesprimate on December 21, 2014, 04:49:07 AM (Last Edit: December 21, 2014, 06:10:13 AM):

Joar would you be able to answer my question about how rain would work in subterranean regions? Would those areas progressively flood, forcing the player to seek shelter as the water is rising, all the while they're constantly facing the risk of drowning? I'm really curious now as to how the mechanic will be implemented for these unconventional level types. 

I think thats basically the idea, though any "flooding" would be somewhat superficial. There are some strict limits to how dynamic we can make the terrain using the current engine and toolset, so were just going to have to make it work as best we can. I think with some time spent, the effects will be pretty cool though.

Joar and I have talked about it, and it seems like there are a couple of ways we can do "rain kills you" underground, flooding being probably the most compelling of the bunch. Since we'll be doing a few non-standard environments, it stands to reason that each will probably have their own slightly different environment-specific way the rain kills you: perhaps flooding for underground regions, some combination of deadly wind and rain for aerial regions, crashing waves and surf for watery regions. Regardless, they will basically behave like the "rain killscreen", just with a different flavor of buildup. I think thats something that we'll want to do once the world is more stitched together, as it will probably mostly effects, shaders, dynamic lighting, screen shaking, etc.

On NeoGAF someone commented:
Quote
I really hope these guys put as much time into designing the levels and objectives as they have into the animation and game engine.
Perhaps Joar/James, you could talk a bit about how you go about designing the gameplay elements and level design? How objectives might work?

Hah, thats a pretty dang huge question! I guess one of the most important things for me when trying to conceptualize the world / level design is trying to keep the balance between the open world "terrarium" aspects and the need for, uh, actual gameplay. Like, sure there are platforming challenges and puzzle-esque rooms, but its not "stage 1 complete! now go to stage 2!" sort of thing. What we'd LIKE to do is make the game playable however, rewarding whatever way you can survive within the game mechanics. Like, you could run around the map and follow the various trails of breadcrumbs, or you could just get really good at hunting bats and finding shelters and both would be totally valid ways of playing, each with their own narrative path.

Another thing we are trying to do is keep "fetch" style gameplay to an absolute minimum. With platformers, if you want to move a character around an open map there has to be a touch of that, but we want to keep it very organic. So, ideally what we'd like to do is have the progression be mostly skill level based. I dont mean "level 21 slugcat", just that as your knowledge of the world and your skill with the character improves, more areas open up to you, you know this or that trick to getting to a higher ledge, or have learned enough about how some challenging creature blocking a path behaves to be able to navigate through it. So an experienced player starting a new game from scratch would have access to a much wider area of the world from the get-go.

BUT... honestly this is just game design philosophy rambling at this point. We have it mapped out on paper, but until its actually implemented and plays well, its all subject to change. Right now we are just finishing hacking together the terra firma of region 2! Our idea right now is to get 4 regions assembled into a nice large chunk, see whats working and what isnt, then plan it from there.

Hope that sort of answers your question!





   JLJac on December 22, 2014, 02:40:30 AM:

The rain is actually a timer and a game over screen, there's no way to get around that haha! I do try to work with it cosmetically, and maybe I'll do something context sensitive for underground areas making it look more like death by flooding rather than actual rain fall - buuuut it'd be a cosmetically different game over screen, not really different in terms of game mechanics.

When it comes to priorities, the chosen path here is prioritizing creatures and creature interactions rather than rain stuff. The rain exists as an important background motif in the world, but is not really a prominent mechanic, if that makes sense. That said, I wouldn't rule anything out. Theoretically we could do rising water, for example. But in order to have a flooding room that looks really good there'd have to be some actual water physics going on, and that seems like it would be the main focus of a game (McMillens "Spewer", for example) rather than just a side feature.

So, yeah, I'll try to make the rain and water stuff cool, but it's not my main priority - I'm more interested in creatures.

As for level design / objectives, that's as much James' desk as it gets, and I don't really have anything to add to his answer. We're really just starting to get a feel for it - James is slaving away with the level editor and is getting close to finishing a second region (if finish is the word, we'll probably re-visit pretty much everything as the actual big world starts to come together). There are pretty significant differences between how the first region he made played and the current one, so things are moving quickly and changing fast right now. The first region is obviously a bit of a special case by virtue of being the first - it's more of a canvas to try the brushes on so to speak. So yeah, as James says, when we have 3 or 4 regions playable we'll know way more about that stuff than we do now.

Update 375
Spent the morning making a dev tool that has been a long time coming - a "accessibility visualizer" which is basically a flood fill using a selected creature's movement specs. You select a creature, say Blue Lizard, then you click a tile, and it flood fills out from there to everywhere that is reachable from the original tile if you move as a blue lizard. I think this will come in quite handy, as you can now get a very clear visualization of whether certain areas in a room are reachable to a certain creature, and even get a hint of what to change in the geometry to open it up. Often quite minor changes enables the creatures to reach much larger areas.

With this new tool, some of the lizards' stupid movement restrictions became too jarring, and I had to spend some time with that. So now lizards can move diagonally between tiles if necessary, and also drop down to surfaces that are not perfectly below the drop point. This latter change means that a lizard can drop from a platform to a platform below it that is aligned with the above platform, if that makes sense. Like, steer back in under it's previous position a little bit while falling. This opens up quite a lot of new terrain to them.

Lastly today, I started on a new creature - the first backer suggestion actually! It's a snail inspired creature, which we though would work well with this watery region we're working on. Don't know exactly what it'll look like yet, but the basic framework is up.

It has become quite a process to create a new creature! It's almost 15 minutes of work to just introduce the  concept of a new creature to the game, with all the components that need to connect. But, once that's done, the modular design pattern I've got going seems to be working (I've really only gotten a glimpse of how usable it is today) and things start moving very quickly as powerful chunks of already written code are set in motion. Exciting stuff!





   jamesprimate on December 22, 2014, 02:37:13 PM:

oh yes! i should probably post links to the BIG EXCITING HOLIDAY UPDATE!

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rain-world/project-rain-world/posts/1070310

it has:
* new video
* details on the alpha
* slow mo button
* more info on the new region
* leeches recap
* a slugcat in a santa hat






   jamesprimate on December 22, 2014, 07:39:19 PM:

oh you guysssss... well im glad that the progress is looking good enough that mozart is the most contentious part of the update, haha! ;]

the video initially had another audio track, but i wasnt happy with it. after all the video updates we've done, i dont have many "trailer suitable" rain world tunes laying around! didnt have time to do another before posting, so i switched it to a little wolfgang amadeus! i agree with gimmy though, i thought it was nice Tongue






   jamesprimate on December 22, 2014, 08:48:33 PM:

I forgot you have a copy of the old alpha OST! Haha. Well this is a good question for you then: which tracks do you like best from the alpha music?  The scope of the game has changed quite a bit since then, so who knows how much of that we'll wind up using, but always good to hear what people like :D





   JLJac on December 23, 2014, 02:07:59 AM:

Update 376
Snails are coming along. Now they can crawl on walls, avoid each other, and otherwise mill about. I have given them shells, and decided that for this creature I want to start trying out the idea of randomizing some features using the creature ID as a seed. So right now shell color and size are randomized ~ don't know how much of this will make it to the final game, mostly just experimenting. Randomized colors look nice, but a bit "computery" - you can sort of see that it's a computer generated color scheme. I'll bring in more weighted randomization into the equation I think, and hopefully the color selection will get more artful qualities. In either case I'm happy with having a creature that's a bit more colorful, as quite a lot of the creatures in the game have dark color schemes.

Also, the snails' niche in rain world as a game has started to take shape. When you (or any other creature) move close to the snail it'll pull into its shell, and then start to vibrate and click. The vibrating and clicking gets more and more intense if you continue closing in on it, until it finally gives a kind of super sonic click, a little sound blast or tiny explosion. This pushes creatures away a bit, and can stun them. Could potentially be fun in multiplayer as well, if you manage do throw (maybe? Don't know yet to what extent you'll be able to pick up living creatures other than bats) a snail at another player, you could possibly create some trouble for them. Snails that are affected by other snails' clicks might decide to click themselves if they slam into a wall or something, so there can be some chain reactions going on.

But the real interesting part is how this interacts with water. The snail is amphibious, moving in and out of water as it wishes. The click is waaaay more powerful under water - right now I have it set to 5 times the radius/strength, which feels about right. This means that an irritated snail that's dropped into a body of water can stun pretty much everything that's unlucky enough to be swimming in there. And this brings us to the actual utility for the player - leeches hate these clicks. I have only just started on the snail/leech interaction, so I don't know yet if the leeches will actually flee from snails or if they'll just stupidly try to attack and then get wrecked, but in either case a snail should be able to clear out leeches pretty effectively.





   jamesprimate on December 23, 2014, 03:20:23 AM (Last Edit: December 23, 2014, 03:32:35 AM):

...so who knows how much of that we'll wind up using...

So practically all of this won't be making it in?




That's a shame. Will the newer music be thematically similar? What would the greatest differences be?

From that preview probably most will? A few of them CERTAINLY will, such as the last track which will be a reoccurring theme. Also multiplayer might wind up being a catch-all for the best of original OST tracks that for whatever reason dont make the jump to the new single player.

**WARNING: JAMES AUDIO RAMBLING AHEAD**

Idk, its a bit hard to talk about at this point since we dont yet have the the audio engine in place or the timing for the rain cycle decided on, we wont know that or the distances between shelters until we get more of the world built, etc etc. Things like "tempo of play" and "how much time it takes for the player to get from here to there" are huge factors in writing effective game music.

When I recorded the original batch of tracks (2 years ago!?), the game was pretty simple. everything happened by room: there were a few platforming rooms, then once you found a swarm room all the real action happened there, lizards, bats, etc. rain came every 2 minutes, so it was basically "write short tracks that would play when you got to a swarm rooms and while rushing back to your shelter, until the deafening rain sound overtakes it." The layout of the world map was even hub-and-spoke style, so we didnt even have to worry much about the musics replay-ability, as once you cleaned out that swarm room you'd likely not see that room again.

For the current version, while that essential mechanic is still fundamentally there, exploration has become a much larger component of the game. To capture the terrarium style and properly show off the AI, you now encounter creatures unexpectedly and bats migrate throughout the map. Swarm rooms arent locations at the end of a spoke, but nodes in a much larger network, etc etc. All things that alter the pace of play! Now we have a concept for a much more dynamic system for the music and audio based more by region, narrative and "event" than by swarm room.

Also *super important* is that the aesthetic of the game has evolved pretty significantly! It's easy to forget when you are watching the gradual shift of the devlog (over years 0_0), but I'm sure you could see how music that would work perfectly well for something like this:


would feel completely out of place for something like this:


even though the second is basically just the evolved current-build version of the first.

Long story short is that from my perspective, the music needs to be what takes into account the scope and pace of the game, adding a final layer of narrative and coherence, tying it all up. I would be totally derelict in my musical duties if I were to try to fit old music into a new game just because it was already written!





   jamesprimate on December 23, 2014, 03:48:30 PM:

Haha, I was just about to say that the humble email cannot come soon enough. Still waiting, betting others are too. Hope I see it before bed time Coffee

Man, after all this time, waiting for that Humble email is agonizing

Anyone play the alpha yet? Any impressions?

is out! if the link in the email gives you any trouble, try the one from the actual update page it should work: https://www.humblebundle.com/resender






   jamesprimate on December 23, 2014, 07:38:06 PM:

Welp, didn't take too long to figure out how to manipulate the game...

10-second rain cycle. Bahaha.
Oh, also made it that I didn't need any bats to win, soooo, wooohoo! Tongue

OH MY GOOOOD!
If you put "1" in the setup text file for each color, you spawn with one of each lizard! AHHH!

ROFL, here it goes  Cheesy

I'm sure there's some way to balance it.
Are bats supposed to get impaled on spikes? They keep shooting down out of a shortcut onto a spike pit & dying, despawning moments later.

Wait, it appears they touch the spikes on one side of the room & spawn out of the spikes on the other side of the room.

i was wondering what you meant by spikes... thats "bat grass"! its like their nesting grounds. and as you have observed, they can travel through it. clever bats...





   JLJac on December 23, 2014, 11:20:21 PM:

Glad you guys are having fun with the build :D It is pretty rough, as I'm sure you've noticed, but I'm glad you're finding some enjoyment in it!

@Christian, thanks for the feedback! Agreed on pretty much all points. Addressing some of your concerns ~ the controls for grabbing a pole is actually only up, not x+up. Hope that makes it easier for you! Grabbing mid air is supposed to be a bit tricky, but both James and I have gotten really good at it so it's possible that we have too much of that element in such an early area. You can't enter the "standing on pole" animation from the air, you have to grab the pole with your hands and then get back up. Eating bats - yeah... The idea is that you shouldn't be able to eat them in the heat of battle, making them feel more like prey rather than "collectible". I like the animal-like feeling of scurrying to some safe corner with your collected food to quickly munch it down. But maybe the eating should be a bit faster to make it less intrusive on the tempo. White shader bug will definitely be fixed! When I have final versions of all the shaders I'll write light versions of them for older machines.

Wall run is something I'll consider.

If you put "1" in the setup text file for each color, you spawn with one of each lizard! AHHH!

There are also other numbers except from 1 ... Also, the level name at the top of the file allows you to spawn wherever in the world. Not that I encourage shenanigans with setup.txt, but have fun  Cheesy

As for lizards camping at room entrances, I actually have a fix for that in the pipeline - there'll be a timer that keep them from biting you right after they spot you for the first time, giving you a split second to get back into the shortcut again. The lizard will pursue you, but it won't be an inevitable insta-death. When it comes to stuff like this in general, things that make the gameplay smoother, there are like a million things to add, several of which I have solutions for in mind but haven't gotten around to implementing.

Update 377

Don't antagonize the snails!



The body/animation of the snail isn't done yet, still working with the head / tail / limbs / pretty much everything. Animating creatures really is the big time sink in RW development, but creature animation is also our main selling point, so I guess that's OK.

And in slow motion:



The game is screaming for audio at this point! Would really like to see what these effects feel like with some juicy samples to go with them.





   jamesprimate on December 24, 2014, 03:05:42 AM:


Don't antagonize the snails!



The body/animation of the snail isn't done yet, still working with the head / tail / limbs / pretty much everything. Animating creatures really is the big time sink in RW development, but creature animation is also our main selling point, so I guess that's OK.

And in slow motion:




OH MAN! that shader (?) sonic shockwave is sooooooooooooooooooooo awesome :O

Quote
The game is screaming for audio at this point! Would really like to see what these effects feel like with some juicy samples to go with them.

ok lets do it! hell, if we get the audio engine in, i could probably get a good amount of the basic audio stuff done just while im waiting for these multi-screen rooms to render Tongue